With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. Is there more info needed?THanks -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Paul:I had to dig a bit deeper - MB made several running changes in the 1983 123'sThere are actually 4 different circuit diagrams for the A/C system that year - just for your 123.123 I found the R4 reference, and it should have 170 Ml of oil in the system.Your aux fan should run at the ambients you listed. The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. But R22 is almost equally damaging. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. That would be the "black death" syndrome. . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. The AC usually does not work at all. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Then when it is switched off for a few minutes and then back on, the air cools again. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. #19. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Crap! A Comparison Study of the Thermal Performance of R12 and R134a 5) A/C System Failure. . If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. As per their results . If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. 5. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. I've done the FSM test and with 81F ambient, the vent should be 50F. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. It's not just the poor performance - the cooling just stops working after a while. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? R12 is simply too expensive for a 25+ year old A/C system. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. How thermostatic expansion valves work | Danfoss With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. James10952001. R134a Expansion valve different from R12? - Automotive Air Conditioning R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. PDF COMPARISON OF Rl34a AND R12 REFRIGERANTS IN A VAPOUR - AIVC difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Big . So the steps involved are cleaning out the old oil, replacing all the O-rings, replacing the dryer, replacing the expansion valve, and converting the high and low side connectors from Schrader to quick connect valves. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. Helical and Serpentine coils. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. This is because R134a. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. Jun 19, 2007. R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. Very interesting! R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. However, R134a is better than R12. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. This may be the source of your oil confusion. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Is there a graph? I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. UNDERSTANDING A/C Everything You Need To Know - Classic Auto Air If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: Chemistry The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Related products. I mean, really a lot. . What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. I know this is bad, etc, and deposits on the metal can act as insulators. R12 to R134a change expansion valve? - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. |. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. Sense ells no existirem. = R134a Charge Level. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." hardly noticable. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. B. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Please enter a valid email address for yourself. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. Jun 17, 2011. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. . Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. 10,000BTU conduction heating? For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. How to Convert R12 to R22 | eHow Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. It won't be optimal, though.On some/many valves, you can adjust them, but that might make matters worse unless you really know what you're doing (which I don't!).RegardsGeorge. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. Is it exponential, squared? Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Look deep into the fins. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. Biggest you can fit in there is best. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system.
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